Samyutta Nikāya, Sutta 347, Part 3

(3) Original text: At that time, after the numerous bhikkhus had departed, Sūci thought thus: "These venerable ones speak differently; their words are inconsistent and contradictory. They say they have not attained right concentration, yet they declare with assurance, knowing and realizing for themselves." Having thought thus, he approached the Buddha, bowed down at the Buddha's feet, withdrew to stand at one side, and said to the Buddha: "Venerable Sir, those numerous bhikkhus declared in my presence: 'My births are ended, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, I know for myself there is no more coming back to any state of existence.'

I then asked those venerable ones: 'Have you attained the abandoning of sensual desire and unwholesome states, up to bodily realization, without arising of the taints, with the mind well liberated?' They answered me: 'No, Sūci.' I then asked: 'Why do your statements differ, being inconsistent and contradictory? You say you do not enter right concentration, yet you declare with assurance, knowing and realizing for yourselves.' They answered me: 'We are liberated by wisdom.' Having said this, each rose from their seat and departed. I now ask the Blessed One: Why do their statements differ, being inconsistent and contradictory, not having attained right concentration, yet they declare knowing and realizing for themselves?"

Explanation: At that time, after the bhikkhus had left, Sūci thought thus: "These venerable ones speak of liberation differently; their words are inconsistent. They say they have not attained the meditative absorption of right concentration, yet they declare they have already realized for themselves that they are liberated without future rebirth." After thinking this, he went to the Buddha's dwelling place, bowed with his head at the Buddha's feet, withdrew to one side, and said to the Buddha: "Venerable Sir, just now numerous bhikkhus declared in my presence: 'My births are ended, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, I know for myself there is no more coming back to any state of existence.'"

"I then asked those venerable ones: 'Have you abandoned sensual desire and unwholesome states, up to bodily realization, without arising of the taints, with the mind well liberated?' They answered me: 'It is not so.' I then asked them: 'What you say differs from the actual state of liberation; it is inconsistent. You say you do not need the right concentration of the four jhānas and eight attainments, yet you declare you can realize for yourselves that there is no more coming back to any state of existence.' They answered me: 'Those liberated by wisdom do not need the four jhānas and eight attainments.' After saying this, they left. I now ask you, Venerable Sir, why do their statements differ from the actual phenomena of liberation, being inconsistent, yet they say they can realize it for themselves?"

Original text: The Buddha said to Sūci: "They first know the abiding of phenomena, afterwards they know Nibbāna. Those good men, dwelling alone in a secluded place, diligently and ardently contemplate, dwelling diligently, have abandoned self-view; without arising of the taints, their minds are well liberated." Sūci said to the Buddha: "I do not yet understand 'first knowing the abiding of phenomena, afterwards knowing Nibbāna.' Those good men, dwelling alone in a secluded place, diligently and ardently contemplate, dwelling diligently, have abandoned self-view; without arising of the taints, their minds are well liberated." The Buddha said to Sūci: "I do not ask whether you know or not. You yourself should first know the abiding of phenomena, afterwards know Nibbāna. Those good men, dwelling alone in a secluded place, diligently and ardently contemplate, dwelling diligently, have abandoned self-view; their minds are well liberated." Sūci said to the Buddha: "May the Blessed One please teach me the Dhamma, so that I may know the wisdom of the abiding of phenomena and see the wisdom of the abiding of phenomena."

Explanation: The Buddha told Sūci: "They first know the abiding of phenomena (dhammatthitata), afterwards they realize Nibbāna. All those good men dwell alone in a secluded place, exclusively and ardently contemplate, abide in diligent practice, have abandoned self-view, and therefore do not give rise to all taints; their minds are well liberated." Sūci said to the Buddha: "I still do not understand 'first knowing the abiding of phenomena, afterwards knowing Nibbāna.' Those good men dwell alone in a secluded place, exclusively and ardently contemplate, abide in diligent practice, have abandoned self-view, do not give rise to any taints, and their minds are well liberated." The Buddha told Sūci: "I do not ask whether you know or not. You yourself should first know the abiding of phenomena, afterwards know Nibbāna. Those good men dwell alone in a secluded place, exclusively and ardently contemplate, abide diligently, have abandoned self-view; their minds are well liberated." Sūci said to the Buddha: "I earnestly beseech the Blessed One to teach me the Dhamma, so that I may understand the wisdom of the abiding of phenomena and perceive the wisdom of the abiding of phenomena."

"First knowing the abiding of phenomena" means knowing the twelve links of dependent origination and being able to abide in them without distraction. "Afterwards knowing Nibbāna" means knowing how to attain liberation and realizing Nibbāna. Those whose minds are well liberated must have attained at least the first jhāna. After eradicating self-view and attaining the fruit of stream-entry, within this concentration they can eliminate the fetters of greed, hatred, and delusion, becoming non-returners or arahants, thus attaining mental liberation and realizing Nibbāna with residue or without residue.