The Difference Between the Manas's Deliberation and the Mind Consciousness's Thinking

Question: I seem to understand how to use the manas to deliberate (manana). It is a mental activity that cannot be done by thinking—once I think, the mind consciousness gets involved, and once the mind consciousness is involved, that state becomes less deep and subtle. Is this correct? This state lasts only a very short time. When the deliberation reaches a point where the problem gets stuck, I use the mind consciousness to think, and immediately the state is no longer as deep and subtle. 

Also, when sitting in meditation, once I apply initial application and sustained examination (vitarka-vicāra) to the state of the body, there arises a feeling that this physical body does not exist—only a body composed of slight sensations and the mind consciousness, very unreal. Suddenly a thought arose: the things we normally see are merely images, pictures, things that are manifested. Having this feeling, after emerging from meditation I looked around and everything still seemed so real. 

Answer: You can now probably distinguish whether it is the mind consciousness thinking or the manas deliberating during meditation, and you are using the method correctly; it is just that your skill is not yet proficient and effortless, so you need to take it slowly and gradually deepen your foundation. When contemplating the Dharma in stillness, it is indeed the case that when using the manas, the mind is very deep and subtle, whereas when using the mind consciousness, it is somewhat shallow, as if separated by a layer—lacking penetrating force. 

When observing the physical body with strong focus during meditation, meditative concentration will improve; as concentration deepens, the initial application and sustained examination (vitarka-vicāra) instead become slight, and the perception of the physical body disappears—the mind becomes empty. Concentration can make the mind fine, dense, and precise; it often enables one to observe things that cannot normally be observed, to discover the truth of things, and thereby to penetrate and awaken thoroughly to the truth. So when, in meditation, some things seem like images and no longer so real, this is a very good cognition. Maintain it and go deeper; you will be able to see through the extreme illusoriness and unreality of all kinds of principles and affairs, and when the conditions and season are complete, it is possible to realize emptiness. Therefore, the realization of all dharmas is realized within profound meditative concentration (dhyāna); even amid activity, there is meditative concentration, and this concentration derives from the dhyāna practice of sitting meditation—it is the extension and continuation of concentration in stillness.