A Discussion on the Manas and the Mind Consciousness

Jueyu: The one that I (the mind consciousness) am aware of, which can think, imagine, speak, and act—is that the manas? 

Lantian: That which can think, imagine, speak, and act are all functions of the mind consciousness. In relation to the mind consciousness, the manas is like a starter—it is the thoughts that flash through our minds. As thoughts keep flashing through our minds, the mind consciousness begins to chase after them—either executing them, fantasizing, analyzing, or reminiscing. Without the manas's grasping, it would be difficult for the solitary consciousness to appear. When the five sense faculties contact the five sense objects, only the mental consciousness accompanying the five sense consciousnesses would appear, to complete the mind consciousness's function of discerning mental sense objects. 

The main functions of the mind consciousness are receiving, discerning, discriminating, reasoning, and imagining, and it works together with the manas to complete bodily, verbal, and mental actions. My personal understanding: the mental consciousness accompanying the five sense consciousnesses can complete the functions of feeling and discerning, and at such times the solitary consciousness is not needed; but when complex mental activities such as discriminating, reasoning, imagining, and summarizing are required, the solitary consciousness appears to complete these tasks. Therefore, human life activities require the coordinated cooperation of the mental consciousness accompanying the five sense consciousnesses and the solitary consciousness.

Master's Commentary: What Lantian said is very good, quite profound, and right on point. The difference between the solitary consciousness and the mental consciousness accompanying the five sense consciousnesses is that when the solitary consciousness is active, it can operate apart from the five sense consciousnesses and does not need them, yet it acts independently on the basis of the discernment performed by the five sense consciousnesses and the mental consciousness accompanying the five sense consciousnesses.

Ru Chun: "Neng" (能) means capacity, energy, or function. The differences in the capacity of the first six consciousnesses derive from the strength or weakness of the manas's energy and the level of its wisdom; the differences in function derive from differences in karmic seeds. The mind consciousness and the manas are like a flower and its root: we can see the flower's color and shape and smell its fragrance, but we cannot see the flower's root; yet without the root, the flower would not exist. That is: without the energy bestowed by the manas to nourish it, the mind consciousness would not exist. That which can think, imagine, speak, and act—and how it thinks, imagines, speaks, and acts—should all be the outward manifestation of the manas's energy and wisdom. But what kind of flower seed this is—whether it is a peony or a Chinese herbaceous peony, and whether it has medicinal value—should be determined by the karmic seeds.

Master's Commentary: How wise Ru Chun's words are! Since when did you become a different person? There are eight consciousnesses that the mind consciousness can condition upon and observe. Before enlightenment, one can observe the first five consciousnesses and the mind consciousness itself; those who have studied the manas and have good powers of observation can, with difficulty, observe a little of the manas. Therefore, that which can think and imagine, as observed by the mind consciousness, may be the mind consciousness itself, or may be the manas; but that which can speak and act, as observed by the mind consciousness, is definitely the mind consciousness itself—this is called the self-validating cognition (sva-saṃvitti-saṃvitti-bhāga) of the mind consciousness.

Ru Chun: I am ashamed, I am ashamed—it is entirely thanks to the Master's grace of Dharma and protection.

Jueyu: Emergency avoidance shows that the manas can act; waking up with sudden clarity shows that the manas can think and imagine; speaking without thinking shows that the manas can speak. When there is inner conflict, there are two "I"s fighting and conversing—one of these "I"s is the mind consciousness, and the other is the manas. In this process, the one that is proactive and has a strong sense of "I" is the mind consciousness, and the other is the manas.

Master's Commentary: Like many people, Jueyu has gotten the functions and roles of the mind consciousness and the manas reversed and inverted. The reason is that he has no power of observation at all regarding the manas and does not understand the functional nature of the manas.

Lantian: The obvious "I" is the manas; the mind consciousness merely makes choices based on the influence of the external environment. If there were no various factors around us, our behavior would likely follow entirely what we think in our hearts. The manas takes the functions of the mind consciousness as its own function; the thoughts that flash through the mind from the manas should be the manas's way of communicating with the mind consciousness—that is, the manas directs the direction in which the mind consciousness thinks and chooses.

Master's Commentary: Lantian's understanding and observation of the nature of the manas and the mind consciousness are very detailed and right on point; his wisdom is very good.

Rutao: The combination of the tathāgatagarbha and the manas is, in effect, a starting device. When the manas presses the button, dharmas arise and are then transmitted to the mind consciousness, allowing it to perform further discernment and processing, so that the mind consciousness can also function. The "neng" (capacity) to think, imagine, speak, and act that my fellow practitioner mentioned indeed originates from the manas's activation; the manas's capacity comes first, and the mind consciousness's capacity comes after. When a person lacks meditative concentration (samādhi) and the mind is coarse and superficial, the capacity of consciousness that one perceives mainly belongs to the mind consciousness; the manas's capacity is remote and profound, and a scattered and benighted mind consciousness cannot perceive it—or even if it does perceive it, it cannot recognize it. Only when a person's meditative concentration is complete and the mind consciousness is clear, alert, and wise does one have keen and subtle perceptive power, and only then can one distinguish the respective roles played by the manas's capacity and the mind consciousness's capacity.

When we have not yet cultivated the seed-wisdom of Yogācāra and our state has not yet left the realm of ordinary beings (pṛthagjana), it is indeed impossible to have precise perception and cognition of such a profound dharma as the manas. Those who cultivate somewhat better can have a vague cognitive experience, with some faint, indistinct cognition—that is already quite rare and precious.

The manas's self-grasping is strong. When a sudden event occurs, the manas will bypass the mind consciousness and instantly raise a strong thought of self-protection. For example, when one touches one's pocket and finds that the phone or wallet is gone, one can be certain that the thought of sudden tension arises from the manas. I believe that the instantaneous, unhesitating reaction a person has in an emergency is the best opportunity to catch the manas's thought, because at that moment the mind consciousness has no time to react, and all mental thoughts come from the manas, the master.

Jirentianxiang: Right—operations are completed before thoughts flash up; the conversion cannot be completed in time. The body is like a robot, and the mind consciousness is like the robot's CPU, the processing center. It appears to have all kinds of activities, but everything is to fulfill the backstage instructions of the operator. These backstage instructions are hidden and cannot be observed on the surface. When a thought flashes through the mind, the instruction has already been converted in format and manifests as part of the mind consciousness. Without this conversion, beings of different kinds should be able to communicate without obstruction.

Lantian: Completing an action before a thought flashes up shows that at that moment the manas does not need to communicate with the mind consciousness and directly completes the action—this precisely shows that a person's behavior is driven by the manas, and at such times only the mental consciousness accompanying the five sense consciousnesses is needed to help complete the discernment.

Jirentianxiang: Exactly—it confirms the mind consciousness's identity as a tool. The mind consciousness is usually full of plans, intentions, thinking, and studying, as if it were the CEO of a corporation; but upon final verification, at best it is just a secretary.

Rutao: Sometimes when a person has something on their mind, they feel inexplicably vexed and uneasy without knowing why. That is probably because the mind consciousness and the manas lack communication with each other, and the mind consciousness does not even understand the reason why the manas can give rise to vexation and unease. That which gives rise to emotions is the manas's capacity, while the mind consciousness is kept in the dark.